G’day and welcome back to my podcast today we’re going to interview a friend of mine George how are you today George? and I’m sure the people are going to be interested in hearing about your story. What happened in your early life? When did you discover that you were a bit different George: I went to school as a six year old, and I’m not exactly sure if it was year one or year two that the teachers had brought it to my parents attention that I couldn’t see the books and I couldn’t see the blackboard. So it was from there that they realised that I was vision impaired, and then obviously the sequence of all the medical things began from there and for the next couple of years I spent a lot of time at the Royal Brisbane children’s hospital and I distinctly remember I spent two birthdays in a row in hospital. I would normally go in for around a month while they conducted various tests and so on. And when I was eight years old, my parents had separated and we then went with mum to a little town called Hope Island where the kids attended a school called the Coomera state school and what I realised later in life is when I was at year one, and year two that once the teachers discovered that I couldn’t see the books and couldn’t see the blackboard. They really didn’t know how to teach me, and when I went to Coomera as an eight year old the same thing continued, the only activity I took place in at school was lunchtime. I use to just sit there in class because the teachers didn’t know how to teach a kid that couldn’t read the book, see the book and couldn’t see them up at the blackboard. When I was around 10 years old We went again and saw the eye specialist where he had said to my mum that I have a permanent issue, even though he wasn’t sure exactly what the issue was at that stage I wasn’t diagnosed however, though he said it would be in my best interest to attend the blind school, so I attended the Narbethong blind school. I started going there when I was 10. I hadn’t learn how to learn so I’ve gone to the school, not knowing how to learn, not knowing how to read, and even though I had some site, depending on what doctor you talk to. I had between 8% and 10% vision is what I had, so when I got to the Blind school, what they did, was, they enlarge the print of the books and handed me a magnifying glass, and started to teach me to read , even though the print had been enlarged and I was using a Magnifier when I was trying to read the best I could do was fit in two letters at a time, so trying to learn to read was really slow. By this stage I was 10 years old, and I really didn’t realise any of this until I was in my 40s, and how and why my education was the way it was, as a 10-year-old I hadn’t learnt to learn and it just continued from There so the only things I really enjoyed and participated in school was manual arts, music, science, I enjoyed and the physical side of things when it came to the scholastic academic side of things I found it too difficult so I didn’t do it. Music was a great thing when I was 12 years old, a mate of mine and I were playing at school and a truck pulled up so we raced over to the truck and said hi what have you got mate? and he said I’m delivering a drum kit and we thought oh fantastic, so we helped him unpack the drum kit off the truck and carted the boxes up into the music room and the music teacher was there and one of the older kids Peter was there. He was 16 or 17 and we helped unpack the drum kit and set it up and Peter already knew how to play the drums, and he sat on the drum kit and started playing, and I sat there and thought wow! That was me from then on, I climbed onto the drum kit, and never got off. By this time we had moved further down into the Gold Coast so I grew up on the Gold Coast from the age of 11 onwards and travelled to Brisbane to school so it was about an hour and a half bus trip so I use to get up And get to the bus stop around 7:30 am to get to school at 9:30 and then used to leave school at 2:30 to get home about 4:30 so it was a long day but you get used to it. The majority of my schooling at Narbethong the blind school I really didn’t learn anything and no fault of the teachers, they tried really hard. The other thing that came from that is that your friendships come from school and the outside of school activities that you’re involved in if you play cricket or footy or whatever it might be you may attend a club after school I didn’t have any of that so there was myself and another kid Stuey that lived on the Gold Coast and we would travel to Brisbane to school together and he was the only friend I had so from the age of 11 up untill I left school at 16. I had no friends because I had no outside of school activities, so on the weekends I’d either be on my own or later as we got a bit older Stuey and I would sometimes spend the weekends together. All these sorts of things you don’t figure out till later it was later in life when I looked back and I think well that’s how it went for me , so I left school at 16 with really a year two or year three education don’t ask me to spell anything. The only thing that I could do was play the drums and I thought that’s right. I’m going to head off in the world and become a Rockstar. I’m gonna become a rock drummer, Again not having a network of friends and didn’t know anybody. It was difficult to make anything happen. I was walking home from surface one day and I walked past a hall and I could hear these guys playing. I heard the electric guitars and singing but I didn’t hear any drums. I thought okay so I walked in the hall, and I said down, waited till they finish playing and introduce myself and said I notice you don’t have a drummer, and I play the drums And they were a great bunch of guys and they said okay let’s trial it out so I piled my drum kit into my mum‘s car. I had around 8% vision at the time I did ride a push bike, I was pretty dangerous but I did get away with it. I rode a push bike And my mum had a little 74 Celica, so I loaded the drum kit into the car but I couldn’t fit in with the drum kit so I rode the bike there while mum drove there and so that was the first band I got into. At this stage I was 16 or 16 & a half thereabouts and rocking on in the band and having a ball I finally found an environment where I had People around me. I had friends I’d started to create a social life social network and had some friends around me and then they were around the same age as I was. As time went on the boys started getting their drivers licenses getting cars and I was still stuck on the push bike , I wasn’t developing as they were developing and I suppose when I realised that I was different cause I went to the blind school at that school. It didn’t matter what disability or condition you had, As long as Eyesite was one of them you could attend the school, so I went to school with some really disabled children some really quite ill children out of the Hundred kids there there were only about 10 of us that were physically fine with no brain injury, eyesite being the only issue so I went to school with some really disabled kids when I got to my teens in my late teens 17 in the kids that I had now met, started getting their licenses and driving. I realised then that I was totally different. This wasn’t happening for me and I wasn’t able to Grow as they did and get that independence as they did, and I didn’t handle it Well. I got really frustrated. I got angry and didn’t handle it well so for the next few years I went off the rails. I had some good opportunities with bands that I was in, we were writing our own music And we actually did quite well but as bands do they drift apart, bands fall over and that’s what happened for that period of my time in my late teens early 20s. I wasn’t in a good headspace I was really struggling with coming to terms that , I am different and being a drummer and needing to get from one gig to another, I always had to rely on somebody else because I couldn’t drive and couldn’t cart my own drum kit around. I found it extremely difficult. I was always relying on other people, and having to you know Not so much beg, but you’re always. David: you always at the mercy of someone else? George: yes, and I found that extremely difficult. Later I had some employment. I remember I was up in Brisbane and playing in a band up there I moved to Brisbane because it was easier and we had another let down. We had a big opportunity And it all went pear-shaped again and I thought you know this music stuff is really good, I’m having a lot of fun but I’m sick of being broke and I’m sick of being disappointed so I remember saying to my mate that I was playing with at the time I’m going to give this away for a while and I’m gonna head back to the coast and go and get a job. I thought okay what am I going to do here? I have no skills I have no education. What on earth am I going to do luckily for me I came down to the Gold Coast and I went and saw an employment agency and at the time switchboard Operator was the common thing for a vision impaired person. So I said what do I do and they said will send you off to TAFE and you can do a course so I went to do that and then within a month or so of that I actually got a job at the local council as a relief switchboard operator. They already had a permanent one but she was struggling to keep up with the volume of calls, so they had a position for somebody in the morning to help with the Call load when it was high between eight and 12 is when the majority of the calls came through. That was a part time position. I did that for a while and then I decided that a part-time job was not what I wanted and I ended up moving up to Cairns and by this time I was around 24 when I went to Cairns and I got involved with lifeline up there. For the first couple of months up there I was getting bored. I walked up and down the beach so many times and I was getting bored with that and I needed something I needed something else so I decided to go and do some volunteer work and I came across lifeline And the things that I learnt through the people at Lifeline were invaluable for me and have carried me through this far and will carry me through and what I learnt was that it’s okay to be different and the best way to be able to deal with that is to Have confidence in yourself and develop a faith in yourself that you can do things you can do whatever it is you want to do within your limitations you can do whatever it is you want to do and one of the most important things I learnt is you’re only as good as the people around you, and if you surround yourself with people that are encouraging With people that are willing to give you an opportunity to do something that you may not know how you’re going to do. If there is a task the knee-jerk reaction for me as a vision impaired person is how would you do that? How would you be able to do that? You can’t see how are you going to be able to do that? What’s happening There is in their head there thinking how on earth would I do it if I was vision impaired? this coming from a fully sighted person And what I’ve learnt is that I say to people I don’t know yet how I’m going to do it I’ll just start and I’ll figure it out as I go but what you need is you need that person beside you who is prepared to give you that opportunity this is particularly in the workplace and even socially and at home That’s really important as well to. If you’ve got the right people around you that believe in you and allow you the opportunity to just go ahead and do what it is you want to do and how you want to do it and support you in doing that you can achieve some fantastic things. So that life lesson for me was a good one. When I got to lifeline, there was a business manager, Terry Dixon that was there, and I was volunteering in the warehouse, helping the ladies that were doing the sorting carrying things for them, bag things up for them and all this type of thing and this guy was watching me and watching how I was doing things and what I could do And racing around with a pallet jack and moving pallets. I was actually sharpening the cutting machine blades with a stone once I saw Bob do it a couple of times I thought I should be able to do that and here I am with my fingers an inch and a half from a spinning blade that would literally take your finger clean off if you got it in the right position, but I thought I’ll just learn where I need to get my hands and make sure I don’t get my hands in the bad spot, and all will be good And having someone allowing me to do that looking at me and going this kid understands how this works so he understands where the dangers are so let him do it. That was a big part in teaching me that I can do whatever I want to do within reason I’m not being silly about it. It really is important on having the right people around you to give you that direction and that encouragement, and that support Their support is a really important thing. The other really important thing that I learnt was the belief in yourself. If you’ve got belief in yourself. I have this attitude where I have no clue how I’m going to do what I’m about to take on, but I believe enough in myself to say that as I come across a problem , I have the faith in myself to say you’ll sort it out and if I can’t sort it out for myself well then I can turn to somebody else and say this is what I’m doing, have you got any ideas on how to get to the next stage. I call that the toolbox and everybody I know is part of my toolbox and I say to them that I am part of yours so if there’s something that You’re unable to do and you think I may be able to help you I’m part of your toolbox. As you know Dave we’ve known each other a long time I’m a computer person now have been for many years and when my friends have an issue with their computer I’m the person they bring it to, and it’s interesting when they say to their friends my blind mate is my computer technician. [Both Dave and George laugh] I’m only one of many there are many many many thousands around the world blind people who are fantastic IT people, and very very skilled in the IT industry. My journey has been a really interesting one in that up until the time that I came to terms with that it’s okay to be different. The world is not built for a disabled person, the world is not built for a vision impaired person, and it was interesting. I was listening to a podcast once, and it was a fellow talking about discrimination, and he gave you an example that the world is not geared up for Vision impaired people as as as much as it is not geared up for left-handed people , and then he went through the examples of how left-handed people are that the world is not geared up for left-handed people, and I thought. Wow that is interesting. There’s many of us in that pool where the world is not geared up for us the way to survive in that world is to understand that that’s how it is and that’s okay and get on with Being able to find ways to achieve the things that you want to achieve understanding that you have to do things a little bit differently to get to where you want to get because the road that you are on is not actually built for you so you want to travel that same road, but you need to do it a different way because the road is not actually built for you. It’s built for the average person and as a person with a disability I am not an average person And neither are people like myself so it’s been an interesting journey thus far. I’ve been really lucky in a lot of ways where I found myself in positions where I was surrounded by people who were supportive and the jobs that I’ve had lifeline being one of them, and then I ended up as a vision impaired person working as you know for a meat works or a small goods processing plant where I was using minces and bold choppers they call these machines, that would literally rip your arm off if you got your hand in the wrong spot . I had to push for that though. When I first started there initially when I went for the interview, there were two of us being interviewed and the fellow beside me who was being interviewed at the same time was a fellow with an intellectual disability. I’m not sure what it was. I hadn’t met him before, but he clearly had a intellectual disability And the boss of the factory paid me no attention at all and was looking directly and only communicating with him. He then said we’ll take you through the factory, and you can have a look at the factory and it wasn’t operating at the time there was no one working that day , he took us through and was explaining what the different sections were and me being me I was asking what’s that machine what does that do, so you push this that way and then this goes that way oh ok, and he’s looking at me going this guise asking all the right questions and he’s actually understanding what’s being said here and he gave me a start. He said to me “we’ll give you a trial day come in tomorrow” and they put me on a set of scales, they would hand me a bag of mince and I would then sit it on the scales and then with my limited vision luckily for me, the scale had a massive digital display on it. It was huge so with my nose up there, I could actually see the numbers and my job was to get it to 18.2 if I remember rightly the bag had to weigh, so I had to either add meat or take some meat out. so I got the job and I was doing that for about three months and a fellow came to me who I had not met before he was working in the other section, the section right next door we could see each other, but we hadn’t met before he came to me and shook my hand and said my name is such and such and I’m actually leaving today and I said okay nice to meet you and then he said to me I’ve been watching you and you are far more capable than just working on these scales, but these people are not going to give you the opportunity as far as they’re concerned you are going to remain on the scales. They are not going to teach you the different jobs like everybody else does here you’re not going to get to learn how to use the machines, as far as they’re concerned you’re gonna stay on the scales so if you want to do that you’re going to have to do that. I thought to myself okay, I’m not sure if it was that day or the next day that when we finished. Doing the run for the day we were on the mincing line at the time so when we finish that 15 ton or whatever it was for the day we would wash the machines then we would pull the machines apart and give them a clean up and I went over to the fellow who was cleaning the chipper as we called it , and I said can I help you I want to learn how this machine works and he said that’s fine he was great. once I learnt what the dangerous bits were and how the machine worked I then asked him can I have a go at that and he said yeah fine, , he allowed me to do that and then I moved onto the mincer and learned how to do that, this was over a couple of weeks. We were there one day, I was operating the mincer and this was an older mincer and the way you had to actually push the meat in with a paddle, and if you got the paddle caught in the mincer, it wasn’t good. The boys were wrapping up a pallet or unwrapping a pallet. I can’t remember now and I was just finishing off running mince through the mincer and I’ve been on it all day and for about two or three weeks and rotating around the different machines for about two or three weeks and then the boss walked in And he spotted me on the mincer and on this podcast I can’t say the words that he said, basically what’s he doing on that and the boys said well he’s been on there for about three weeks and he came over and he stood there and watched me for about a minute maybe and then That was it from that point forward he wasn’t concerned about anything I did. I got to learn all the machines, I got to learn all the different jobs and I got to rotate around where I wasn’t being able to do that before I was stuck in that one job. I ended up becoming a supervisor there after a period of time. So again what that taught me was You need to make things happen, things don’t generally come to you you have to go to them. You have to make things happen and that was a good lesson in life for me a pure total stranger coming to me and saying you need to do this if you want to move on in this company you’re going to have to do it yourself they’re not going to come and assist you to do it because I suppose they were too scared that I would injure myself. That job ran out we all got made redundant. I ended up being permanent there put on as a permanent employee rather than a part time employee and the company survives half on 50% part time and 50% full time. They had financial issues so they decided to put off all the full-time workers and just keep the part-time workers and get them in as they needed them , so the resilience I suppose comes from in my story is that the resilience you have to have within yourself to say that what is it that I want to do and how am I going to achieve it sometimes there’s no answer we are really privileged at the moment that we have the Internet out there and the resources out there on YouTube on how to do things like at the moment you know David I’m working on a car I bought a car I decided to Play around with some mechanical stuff so I bought an old car that wasn’t running and I’ve got it running now it’s sitting out there and the YouTube clips that I’ve sat there and listen to to help me along this journey, trying to learn how things work, and how to repair this and that. So we are really lucky in that regard that there is a massive resource out there for us. Now the one thing it doesn’t give you is the tenacity that you need to have within yourself and how to figure out what it is you need to do to get to where you need to go. The most important part of that is the faith in yourself that you can do it, for example, as a vision impaired person what I would normally do is I need to get from here from point a to point B. Sorry I just banged the mike, I’m talking Greek I’m Greek and I’m using my hands and I bang the mike. I sit down sometimes and I think how am I going to do this? I have never been to this place before how my actually going to get there, even though I haven’t been able to map it out in my head to be able to structurally say to myself step one, step two, step three, step four I should be there without knowing how to do it, the first step is to start and then figure it out as you go , I’m not explaining this well, what I mean is just go and have faith in yourself that no matter where you end up and no matter what happens, you’ve got the ability to get yourself through it and move on from that and get to where you need to go that’s The point I’m trying to make, is that no matter what it is just start on it and have the faith in yourself that no matter what happens along the way, I’m going to be able to sort it out and again that doesn’t mean that I’ll physically sort it out myself. That might mean that I turn to the person beside me and say I’m struggling with this do you mind helping me with this? Yep no problem And then I’ve done it and I’ve done it using the resources from the person beside me. That’s the toolbox and then on I go and I keep going and I get to the end goal and that’s it. It doesn’t matter how I get there as long as I get there if that makes sense. That’s been a really important thing for me to learn now that’s exactly my attitude is when I don’t know how to do something I think okay I don’t know but I’ll just start and I’ll learn as I go and it’s a fantastic thing to be able to do that What a journey it takes you on particularly when you’re out and about and having to call on Strangers then you’ve got to know that person and if you have the opportunity to sit down and talk with them you’re then learning from them as well. I love talking to people and asking questions . As far as the way that I have manage to live my life as somebody with a disability, it’s not easy. It’s not easy when you live in a world that’s not geared up for you however though, It became a lot easier for me when I accepted who I was and learnt that I could do a lot more than what I was doing. All I had to do was just get out there and start doing it. David: have a crack at things I guess that’s the message that you’re leaving us with today George: absolutely, and what you’re going to be good at is things that you’re interested in I’ve learnt that if you’re not interested in something you’re not going to be that good at it because you’re not interested in it but if you’re interested in something and you’re not sure how to go about it, just get started on it and things will happen. You will make things happen as you go along . David: that’s an amazing story that you’ve told us today George have you got a bit of wisdom to leave us with. George: wisdom, wow you know I’ll tell you I think I’ve told you this before I’m 57 now and I thought in my 20s yeah I got it together, my late 20s I was thinking I’m getting it together. It’s all good and I thought wow when I’m 50 I’m really gonna have it together. I’m going to have this massive pool of wisdom. I’m going to have this massive understanding of everything and now that I’m here what I now know is that I know nothing. [Both David and George laugh!] David: your never going to know anything just do your best hay George: and what’s beautiful about that is, and that’s okay. I know nothing and that’s okay David: that’s great, thanks a lot for being on my podcast today George, and I’m sure we’ll learn more about you in the future. George: thank you David, and good luck to everybody listening.