George: Hello everybody, my name is George & we are sitting here with David & we are going to learn a little about David & his journey. David we’ve known each other for around twenty or thirty years something like that, so I know a fair bit about you already, I’ve been along side you for a fair bit of your years in the last twenty or so. Tell us about David as a child, a five-year-old, a ten-year-old, prior to your accident. I know you lived on a farm in Queensland & from what you’ve told me it was about a two-hundred-acre farm, tell me what was it like living on a farm? David: living on a farm you were fairly active, you had a bit of space to grow up in, so that was good. George: & you told me your dad had taught you how to drive the tractors when you were about ten years old, that would have been very exciting as a kid. David: yeah well looking back it certainly was a great way of growing up, at the time you just think it’s normal. George: yeah, all the other kids living on farms are doing the same thing as well I suppose. David: Well the way I thought was, well that’s what all kids did. George: yeah fair enough, tell us what other activities were you involved in as a kid outside of school? David: outside of school I went to Scouts, I also did a bit of swimming, I was involved in the Gatton swimming club, I did a bit of speaking at eisteddfods’ & that sort of thing. George: & you said before you played footy David: I did play football, I played for the Gatton Hawks in the under nines, tens & I think I was in the under twelves when I had my accident. George: So fairly active David: that’s right, I did a bit around the place George: so, you were coming home from a Scout camp David: yes my uncle & aunt & their children were on the farm having a ride on one of our horses, I went out & got on the horse without a helmet, but that didn’t concern me at that time, the horse got a bit excited, because there were some other horses in the paddock & they got excited & he started to bolt down the paddock & unfortunately I lost control & fell off the horse & in another twist of fate my foot got caught in the stirrup & this meant I was dragged along for around one hundred meters. After that the stirrup came out of the saddle & I just laid there covered in dust, my uncle at the time thought I was dead, I was close to it but not quite. George: I remember your uncle describing it to me, he was reliving it as he was telling the story. He said he was watching your head hit the ground, your foot was caught in the stirrup & your head was hitting the ground while the horse was bolting. Your head was bouncing off the ground while the horse was bolting & he was watching the horse run towards this big rock & he saw your head hit the rock & that is when your foot came out of the stirrup & he watched your lifeless body tumbling, that’s the way he was describing it. Then your aunty went up to you & started giving you CPR till the ambulance arrived & take us from there. David: yeh she got me breathing again, I was taken into the Gatton hospital. It was quickly realised that my situation was quite serious & I was transferred to the Royal children’s hospital in Brisbane in an ambulance. Again, the doctors thought my situation was quite serious. They talked to my parents later on in that evening, and they said if I happen to live through the night, it was likely that I would be a vegetable for the rest of my life. My parents did go home for the evening, after that they wanted to come back and see if there was anything they could do, they came back the next day and my mother decided to sit beside me and just talk to me and read stories to me. It’s fairly important just to keep the brain active when you don’t have many senses left that you can use, although I do know there are other theories too, I can vouch for the way that my mother handled things it certainly was beneficial to my recovery. George: it clearly was beneficial, so your mum sat there with you reading, how long were you in the coma for? David: about 4 to 6 weeks, when you come out of a coma, you come into a state which is semiconscious and it’s really hard to pick the time when you are really conscious, when you are semiconscious, you can be there And your eyes can be open, but you’re not taking anything in so that is when you go through semiconsciousness George: so, it was about the fourth or sixth week when you uttered a word what was that word? David: the first word was the word no, because a teacher at the hospital found out that I was a big fan of Mal Meninga at the time and he always used to rubbish Mal Meninga to me saying he can’t play he’s no good and eventually I said the word no George: so, he was coming in saying to this 11-year-old boy, knowing that he was a mal Meninga fan saying Mal Meninga was no good. He’s not a good footy player and he can’t play footy and he got a reaction David: yes George: And that’s what his goal was & it worked, and when you came out of the coma, what is your first recollection after that? David: it’s a little strange. I guess you’re not really sure where you are. It takes a long time to work out what exactly has happened to you George: did you know what it happened to you? Did you remember the accident? Did you understand why you were in hospital? David: no, it was just a dream for a long time. George: that would’ve been terrifying for a child. Specially, not knowing what happened David: it was terrifying, but that’s how it was. George: so, take us from there, you came out of the coma and what was the journey from there? David: I had to learn to do everything again to talk again to move different parts of my body, and eventually I had to learn to walk again. George: and what were the doctors saying the injuries were that you had gotten? David: they said it was a brain stem injury. George: and what is that? David: a brain stem injury is when it stops the messages from your brain to different parts of your body. That’s why I had to learn to walk again and talk again and to do different things. It was just a slow process to get all that happening again. George: so, is it where the brain meets the spine? The brain was struggling to get information down through the spine. David: yes, that is my understanding of it. George: so that’s why you had to learn to walk again what was that like describe that what was it like having to learn to walk again? David: It’s a struggle I remember looking at other people saying well I hope I can get that good and eventually when you are that good you just want to get better George: after six weeks, you came out of the coma and then how long did you spend in hospital? David: 17 weeks and four days. George: so, six weeks in a coma and then another 11 weeks and four days in physio and rehab and what condition were you in when you left Hospital at that time. David: when I left hospital, I recall I walked out of hospital with the aid of a four-prong walking stick. George: so, you manage to walk out of hospital unassisted with a walking stick that’s pretty good David: the first appointment I had back at the hospital I walked in with mum and dad to Doctor Yelland and he said to me that he never thought that I’d walk in in the door like that, and I thanked him for all the help that he’s given me and he said don’t thank me thank your parents, it is their doing. George: because of all the work that they put in, if we can just go back a little bit, so at the age of 10 did you have friends at school?? David: yes. George: so, you were an active kid among the other kids at school and among your friends, so you had friends coming over to stay at your place. David: yes. George: so, 17 weeks and four days in hospital so how long after getting out of hospital did you go back to school? David: the accident was later in the year and I went back to school at the beginning of the following year. George: so, after Christmas, you started school at the beginning of the year with the rest of the kids. David: yes, start of year seven George: so, the friends that you had before at school what was it like going back to school with them? David: it certainly had changed. George: in what way? David: I came back as a different person, because I had gone through all that trauma, and I suppose It’s fairly difficult for my friends who are only 12-year-old to understand what did happen George: what was different about you? David: I didn’t walk as well. I didn’t move as well. I certainly talk to little bit slower. It took me a little bit longer to understand things. George: So, the friends that you had before didn’t know how to deal with that. David: yes, I guess that’s it. I’ve always said it’s dangerous to be different at that age and to go from being just one of them to being totally different and having a lot of issues, you will be on the outer a little bit. George: so, when you went back to school did you then feel you were alone or did you have some kids that were supportive to you or did you feel alone? David: I did feel reasonably alone. Yes. George: so, things were totally different. David: I did have my cousin Aaron, he was very supportive of me George: was he at the same school David: no, he was in Brisbane, I spent a lot of time with Aaron growing up. George: so, then you got through school how old were you when you got through school? David: I then at Thirteen went to high school that was quite challenging for a while, until about grade 9 or grade 10 I started to get a few good mates at school. George: when you said it was a bit challenging. What were those challenges? David: just being alone for a while until I worked things out and work things through. George: you then started to develop some friendships, so then what was high school like? David: I started to enjoy some subjects, more than others. I use to train a bit. As soon as I left the physiotherapist in Gatton. I started to go to the gym in Gatton and that’s where I developed a habit of going to gym and a habit of exercising all the time, I believe that is what has seen me do reasonably well physically in life. George: you’ve always been very dedicated to your exercising in all the time that I’ve known you. David: I’m fairly confident that that’s been fairly integral to my development. George: when did you start going to the gym? David: that was when I finished with the physiotherapist in Gatton then I went onto the gym. I would’ve been around 12 years old. George: and you were swimming then to? David: I use to do a bit of swimming George: you knew that being fit was an integral part of your recovery, so you dedicated yourself to swimming and you dedicated yourself to the gym. David: I did more in the gym, and I also trained for cross country running more running than swimming growing up. George: I know the story with your dad Terry, he was training with you or assisting you in training with the running tell us the story. David: the first year he ran beside me. The second year he rode a bike beside me. By the third year, he drove a utility in front of me. I can always say that he was very dedicated to the cause of keeping me fit and helping me. George: so, your parents were dedicated in helping you in your recovery in whatever it took David: it was a crucial part. George: So, going to the gym 12, 13, and 14 working really hard to keep yourself fit and recover the best that you could and then you’ve got affected by Parkinson’s David: yeah Parkinson’s syndrome is what it’s called, it’s the shakes. Initially it was my right hand began to shake, and I thought just forget about it and hope it goes away, and I went to a GP in Gatton, and he said it may have just been a stage of life that I was going through , but my mum insisted that I go and see a neuro physician sometime later. I went and saw Dr Vivian Edwards in Ipswich and he did a few tests on me which became very common to me. Touch my finger touch your nose. He did that several times to see how my brain was working, and then after that, I was sent For an EEG to just work out what was happening inside my head and I was sent in with a young nurse, where wires were attached to my head, and that happened, and then I was sent into another room with the nurse and my parents were invited into Dr Edwards room for a consultation, and he said that his finding had revealed that I had Parkinson’s syndrome, which was a direct result of having a hit on the head earlier, and he said at the time that it was fortunate that my parents had a farm because my work prospects in the future would be limited because my condition would deteriorate. George: and how old were you then? David: I think I was around 16 George: so, from the age of 12 to 16, you’ve been working really hard to keep your fitness up to combat the injury, the brain stem injury and recover the best you could and then you get struck down with the Parkinson’s. That must’ve been horrible for you. David: yes, it was horrible. I went into depression depression really wasn’t talked about in the 1980s, but I was fairly sure I was depressed, even the simple things became difficult because it just felt to me that something was eating me and it was all psychological. It was a terrible time to go through. George: when you say that the simple things were difficult, can you describe that? David: even the simple maths that I used to do just became impossible to handle George: so here you were at the age of 16, and the specialist is saying to your parents it’s a good thing you own a farm, because the best you can expect from your son, is to give you a hand to spread some hay around the farm, and he’s not really going to be able to do much more than that because of the injury and he said the injury is developing, that’s what your parents were told so take us from the age of 16 forward. David: my parents never told me at that stage about what the doctor had said. They thought it was best not to tell him what we’ve been told, and just to see what he can achieve. I got a lot of encouragement from my parents; I certainly had a lot of mental health issues at that time dealing with all the issues that I was dealing with but a lot of encouragement it was tough. Winston Churchill once said when you’re going through Hell just keep going. In saying that, I certainly had good times in my childhood I wouldn’t describe it as negative, I certainly had a lot of good times during my childhood. I did have a lot of issues to deal with. George: you said you were suffering with mental issues can you describe them for us? David: mental issues just basically depression, after I was told that I had developed Parkinson’s, I just really struggled to do a lot of things at school. Eventually I was able to, through a lot of help from teachers at Lockyer District high school. I was able to see that there was a pathway through. I guess it just wasn’t the pathway that I intended to go. I was fortunate that I had taken typing in grade 9 in grade 10 so I could take my notes down on a portable word processor I was given ascribe for exams because at the time I had Parkinson’s syndrome in my right hand. Well I’ve still got Parkinson syndrome in my right hand. At that time, I was right-handed. It took me longer to write. I was given a scribe to do exams and that worked fairly well George: and that’s how you got through high school. David: yes. George: so, what age were you when you left high school? David: it would’ve been 18. George: and where did you go to from there? David: I went to the Queensland agricultural College at Gatton, which is quite close to where I lived. George: and what did you do there? David: I studied valuation. George: so, you studied a degree in valuation, property valuation and then take us from there. David: well the first year I struggled with a lot of concepts that I was unfamiliar with. I didn’t realise at the time I needed to be a little bit more patient. I did finally get the ability to get through the exams, but that was usually after I had seen tutors in that type of thing and did a little bit more work on things to understand the concepts, I didn’t understand because of my brain stem injury. It often took me a little bit longer for the messages to get through to me to work out different concepts, but I did get through a bit of high-level maths that I was able to with tutors and eventually got through those subjects and the other subjects. Some of them were find some like a valuation were a lot of different concepts and I was able to get through them fairly well. George: so what did you learn about yourself in the first year, that I’m struggling to absorb the information and understand it, but if I take my time And let it sink in and go over it and over it again I actually do get it and I do understand it. Is that what happen for you? David: talking now a long time after that, it was only about 2010 that I had a discussion with a physio and he made me understand at the time I was fairly impatient with myself and why didn’t I understand this and that was quite frustrating at the time I realise I needed to be a little bit more patient with myself. George: so, you went through your degree, and then the degree gave you what David: it was a degree in property valuation and administration. George: so, you graduated university, and what did your father Terry say to you? David: on the day I graduated, Dad told me what Dr Edwards had told him at the time that he thought the best that I could do was to be a farm labourer or that sort of thing. George: and your dad told you that the day you graduated university. David: I didn’t realise at the time what a gift my parents had given me, by not taking away the incentive for me to achieve things They felt at the time it was best not to tell me that. George: that’s it. If you tell somebody you’re not good for anything they’re going to believe you. David: that’s right, that’s it. It’s only been in recent times that I’ve read books like the placebo affect it is exactly what you said. If you tell people something that’s what they’ll aim for. It’s better it’s better not to tell people something and just see how far they can go. George: yep, that’s right encouragement so now you’re dealing with a brain stem injury which has caused you to Struggle to walk freely and your arm movements in your leg movements are only as good as they are because of the physical exercise that you’ve done over the years and the tremor in your arm & in your right hand. I know the tremor in your right arm is still quite severe, I know when I’m handing you a cup, I’m vision Impaired & when I’m handing Dave a cup I can feel the tremor in Dave’s’ hand so you’ve been dealing with that since the age of 16. So, when you said you were right-handed is that still the case David: when I was in Cairns, I started to learn to write with my left hand , I was originally in high school and one of the teachers was trying to get me to do that and then I got the word processor so there was no need to but when I was in Cairns in my first place of work I actually started in Ipswich as a temp, but my first permanent job was in Cairns. I realise that it would be fairly good for when I was signing things that it would be beneficial for me to be able to write legibly , because with my right hand I can’t write legibly so I started to write with my left hand and I went through a series of different exercises and just started writing short things so I can write with my left hand. Now over time though, things have deteriorated, there’s lots of things we can do now to increase that. George: speaking of Cairns, that’s where we actually met was in Cairns. I’m gonna tell people the story on the first time I met David I was living in a boarding house And there was a couple of young kids living there, sharing a room, and they were brats and they were only there for a couple of weeks and the lady running The boarding-house finally move them on and when the kids moved out a fellow moved in, which was Dave he took their room and a couple of us were downstairs and we noticed in the storage room a pushbike and we thought the kids must’ve left this so we decided well, Ruby needs a seat. Dion needs a wheel so we pulled the bike apart and gave the bits away and the next morning in the lounge room the new fella that just moved in said, listen Fellas what have you done with my bike? That was the day I met David, so it was sorry mate we need to get all your bits back & we put his bike back together again. Dave & George both laugh: So part of your exercise routine back then was riding a pushbike and that’s how we met and we ended up sharing a house for years in Cairns, and I remember I saw you one-day standing in the doorway doing some exercises and you said the orthopaedic people had said to you there was a curvature in your arm and they said that they couldn’t straighten it. They told you it wouldn’t be able to be straightened and you said you came across a physio who said do these exercises and you were so dedicated you did them every day And around 5-6 weeks later you walked up to me and he said look at this and you showed me your arm & it was straight. David: he was the first person after I seen a lot of people he was the first person that got me to put my arms up strait to compare one against the other, and he said they’re not straight and that is your problem , so he had me on a bench, trying to straighten my arm and it was fairly painful but in the end, he finally straightened it out and I don’t have any problems from that any more. George: isn’t it fantastic how someone has knowledge that other people don’t have, and you get with that person you’ve been with 10 other people and they don’t get it and then you come across this person that has that knowledge and they can help you. That’s the same through doctors it doesn’t matter who it is, the same thing applies doesn’t it David: there is definitely a difference between a good doctor and someone who’s just good enough to pass exams George: so, Cairns was your first job as a valuer, so you go to uni, did your valuation degree and Cairns for your first permanent position as a valuer, now what was it like being in that environment as a person who is a bit different? David: sometimes you struggle a bit George: struggle, how, describe that. David: looking back, you feel that some people may treat you differently, but there’s nothing you can do just try and be friendly, most people will be friendly back to you, you’ve experienced similar issues I think George George: I call it people having their foot on my head, I’ve experienced things where I worked with a fellow, a job in a meat processing plant and I became the supervisor there and the people that were under me were people that were there when I got there and one of the guys came up to me and said to me that now it was many years ago I can’t remember exactly, but the essence of it was that me coming to this job, This is him talking, is something that he really prides himself on. He said I run these dangerous and technical machines in this dangerous and technical job, and along comes a vision impaired person, I’m Vision impaired and at the time I had probably around 8% vision 7% vision and he said along comes you and you can do all the jobs that I can do and you end up becoming my boss and what that’s done to me is That has made me feel like I’m nothing. My job was my pride and here comes a guy with a disability and can do my job as well as I can and it’s taken away all of me. I looked at him, and I said to him that you are the biggest man I’ve ever met because that’s fantastic that you have acknowledge that and said that to me I don’t know if I’m explaining this properly when we listen back to the recording I think it’s gonna make no sense at all. This is nearly every job that I’ve been in people have gone to me. How on earth can you do what I can do because your vision impaired so I’m not gonna let you do it because that makes me a lesser person if you can do it. Not all of them are like that However, though there is a lot of them out there who do that and I call it putting their foot on my head, just to try and keep me down to make them feel better about themselves, and it’s really sad that that’s what happens but it’s real and that’s what happens out there and you got to fight for everything you want to achieve. So yeah, I went the long way about answering your question it’s hard work having to deal with those sorts of things so did you experience any of those sorts of things? David: You don’t really know what other people have experienced you only know what you’ve experienced through work. I’ve enjoyed my work where ever I’ve been. I was in Cairns for a while for two years while living with you in Cairns That was all good. After that, I went down to Bundaberg for two years, that was also interesting. I did a lot of different farming valuations and a little about life. Also, there that was enjoyable and after that I went out to Roma for a year and that was also very interesting out there. A lot of different people different agricultural farming, grazing properties out there that was also interesting , and after that I ended up going overseas for 12 months and you think you know a few things and when you go overseas you just realise that you don’t know that much at all. George: describe that what do you mean? David: Australia is great. I was just totally blown by travel and visas and just having to deal with all those other things , you think you’re fairly stable and you just put yourself out there and I guess that’s the best time to learn things when you don’t really learn things unless you’re prepared to put yourself out there. George: that’s right, and you never know what you’re going to come across until you start your journey so you just take off and take things as they come. Can I just tell a story , I’ve always been someone who loves mechanical stuff I love pulling things apart, car engines, bikes, lawnmowers so on and so forth, in the house that we were living in up in Cairns, I was trying to mow the lawn and I couldn’t get the lawnmower started couldn’t get it going couldn’t get it going and then Dave turned up and Dave has no mechanical knowledge whatsoever . He’s an academic. No mechanical ability probably never done a bolt up in his life. Dave: I did grow up on a farm. George: Have I gone too far? Both Dave & George laugh I’m trying to get the mower going and I’m frustrated it was stinking hot I can’t get the mower going, can’t get the mower going and Dave says it sounds like you put diesel in it and I looked at Dave & said how on earth would you know and Dave says well that’s what it said on the petrol tin! Both Dave & George laugh so now you’re in Roma and then you go overseas and you describe it as being a great learning experience in all the bureaucracies & the difficulties in visas and so on tell us more about your overseas journey. David: it was good. I first landed overseas, and I stayed with a mate who was already overseas, stayed with him for a little while, and then ventured out on my own, I went first to Ireland, my cousin was staying in Island so I spent awhile over there. I did a tour around Southern Island and that was just great my mind just expanded that much after that I did a bit of a tour around Scotland and I went back to England and I also saw a friend up in northern England, Stayed with him for a while. Did a little bit around Hadrian ‘s wall that was built by one of the Roman emperors to keep the Scots out of England because England was part of the Roman Empire at one stage. After that, I ran out of money and decided I need to get a job, so I started working at different places. I found my academic qualifications, well I had trouble convincing anyone that I could do anything academic so I worked on Building sites. After that I met Cilla she was at the bottom of the stairs one-day and we shared an alcoholic beverage and it went on from there and we stayed at the hostel for a while and we were working separately and then we did a tour of Europe for two months that was good And after that we went and saw a lot of different places, Paris went there first and also Germany and Belgium and we spent some time in Turkey which was very interesting for me because of course Gallipoli was there and we spent a week or so there, Turkey was fabulous. After that, we came back to England Then soon after that I was due to go back to Australia after that. I said goodbye to Cilla and wished her well in life and ended up back in Australia and I was to start my job in Roma again. A few days after that and Cilla gave me a phone call about the first night I was back in Roma, staying with my uncle and aunt at the time and she said well no one is going to die but you’re going to have a baby so that’s the first I found out that Sinead was on her way. I had to spend a little bit of time dealing with that and I had to organise for Cilla to come over to Australia and I worked out how much bureaucracy is involved in that sort of thing and eventually Cilla flew over to Australia And I drove out to Roma and I kept on having to say to her just a little bit further. Just a little bit further. George: and over there, you’ve been through four countries already! David: the first thing I showed her was look, there’s a McDonald’s here. It took Cilla a bit of time to acclimatize to Roma. She grew up in Cape Town in South Africa and she’s always been in cities but over the years that we were in Roma It really grew on her and she was disappointed to leave Roma when we did. George: and you guys now have Sinead was your first daughter and Jamie came along second daughter, how old is Sinead now? David: 23 George: so, you guys have been married now 23 years and she is a real hoot, Cilla is an absolute hoot. She is one of the funniest people I’ve met, she is so much fun to be around. So, you guys Initially started in Roma then you move to Beenleigh and you’ve been set up there now working for the same department for around 20 years. So Dave so far you’ve explained to us and spoke with us about Dave as a child after the age of 10 and then having the horse accident at 11, and then having to go back to school Now as a child with a brain stem injury and then going through uni and getting your degree and securing a full-time job and heading overseas and most people come back with a set of teaspoons or a plate with a map on it but you came back with a wife and a child. Did you pay any excess baggage on that? both Dave & George laugh. you’ve had a fantastic life with Cilla and the children since then, been 23 years now so now you’re living in Beenleigh and still working in the same job which is fantastic if we can go back to something you mentioned when you were in the UK and running out of money and you decided you needed to get some work, and I think your words were, but you struggle to convince people that you could do something academically like an administration job so you had to take on labouring work Can you explain that to us what was the struggle that you had trying to secure an administration job? David: I guess I rang up a lot of different agencies which organise a lot of those positions. I got frustrated with one of the people who told me or asked me if I’d been drinking, I told him a few explicit words and then I just hung up the phone. George: so, this is over the phone as you said, and this was an employment agency that you were trying to get work through, and because of your brain injury, your speech is a little bit impaired and he said have you been drinking mate? And David said yeah that’s right George: how did that make you feel? David: Just frustrated, I suppose which is a feeling I’ve had many times in life I guess when you can’t really convince people that you have the ability to do different jobs you just get frustrated and that causes depression and that sort of thing when you can’t really convince people, although you do have the ability to do the job you can’t convince people to give you a start. George: but you must have done that at some stage because you’ve been in the same job now for 30 years how did you do that? How do you overcome people ‘s opinion on what you’re capable of doing? David: eventually, you do find people Who do have understanding or a little bit more patience and you do get a start. I have struggled a lot even in my early days in work I struggled but after that if you just continue have a little bit of resilience you finally get through. George: when you say struggle, struggled in what way? David: I guess just picking up the concepts I guess that’s the way, but if you just persist well, you’ll eventually come through. I do know that I’m intelligent enough to do the job but sometimes because of factors a lot of my job is dealing with people and sometimes it’s more difficult to convince them that you do have the skills. George: and when you’re standing there, speaking with a person at work, you are a person with all the skills and the knowledge, and when they’re standing there, speaking with someone where their speech is a little bit impaired to the average person and suffering from the Parkinson‘s in the tremors so when they’re standing there, looking at you what is that like trying to Say to that person I might have tremors and my speech might be a little bit slow and impaired however in my brain I’ve got all the information and all the skills to do this job so you do need to listen to me because that is what I’m here for. How do you get that across to that person? David: You just have to have the confidence and I’m sure there’s some times that you can’t sometimes you get it across more effectively than other times you just got to keep going. George: so, you just keep looking at them square in the eye, this is what we’re here for. This is what we’re doing, and just keep going with the information that you have in talking about the task at hand David: yeah that’s right George: if we can go back to uni talk about that a little bit in what was it like being in an environment where at the beginning you were constantly behind the other people doing the course how did Other people deal with you in that environment what were the other people like what was it like going through that? David: I’m not really sure what the other people ‘s situation was. Sometimes I guess I was quicker at picking up things, but then again, some people didn’t pick them up and dropped out of the course, so I guess I didn’t do too badly. At times I would get people to help me personal tutors who help me get through different things. I don’t understand other people ‘s journeys. I understand my journey and a lot of other people dropped out of the course so some of them would’ve had similar issues and didn’t have the support. George: so, the communication between you and the other people doing the course. What was that? Like did you have a buddy system or that type of thing David: at University, I probably wasn’t close to people at University. There was a little bit of a buddy system. We occasionally had to do Projects together and when we did that, I found that we worked together pretty well. I’m fairly good at finding out information and I suggest that would be some of my strengths. George: so, if we look back Dave to the age of eleven after the accident occurred when you received the brain injury up until now, what would be the biggest challenges you’ve had and how did you overcome them? David: I guess one of the biggest challenges was the Parkinson’s when I developed the parkinisms cause things were going along quite well until grade ten, I was advancing quite well academically and through a lot of the physical work that I had been doing that that was going quite well and then having to deal with Parkinson’s. That was quite an effort to deal with as I said I went in to a very depressive state for a very long time, so I guess that was the most. Also, in grade 11 trying to deal with a lot of the different concepts that were new to me and also University that was also quite challenging, but I understood that if you kept on song I always came up with the answer at the end it just took me a bit longer. George: so, when you talked about the depression state that you went through for quite some time, how did you get yourself out of there? David: it’s just a struggle I guess and eventually I come through it using exercise because when you do that sort of thing, you’re releasing hormones and serotonin and other hormones, you feel good. Hormones like dopamine and that helps you get through a lot of that thing. So, when you’re in a depressive state, I’ve always found that exercise is quite beneficial for me and there’s a lot of research these days that suggest that that’s the case keeping to a routine is important. The routine that I had when I was growing up, I only realised recently that was very affective. Was the exercise routine that I keep doing I didn’t realise at the time, but the time I’ve been in gym by myself was taking the anxiety out and taking the troubles out, that’s been very beneficial to me. George: that’s excellent so what we’re saying is those days that when we are lying in bed, giving up on everything and feeling horribly depressed is the day that we need to get up and just go for a walk and get some exercise? David: there’s a lot of research now that suggests that produces a different hormone or chemical in your brain Which is very beneficial. George: that’s good information to know, the last thing you feel like doing is the thing that you should be doing. Instead of lying in bed or sitting on the couch feeling horrible about everything just get up and go for a walk and walk yourself through it. That’s good information so Dave what do you want to leave us with? David: Just keep going keep exercising you just don’t know what’s around the corner, especially when you’re in a very depressive state, there is an Irish quote, which is one of my favourite quotes. The darkest hour is just before the Dawn. George: and what does that mean? David: that means a good time could be just around the corner, so keep going keep smiling, you never know what’s just around the corner George: so, when you’re on a real high & you are feeling great & as high as you can be the only way is down, but when you’re down the only way is up David: yep that’s right, just keep going just one foot after the other you don’t know what’s just around the corner George: now one of the things you haven’t mentioned is that you have written & published a book about your life story David: yes, that was back in 2012 George: now what we would like the listeners to do is to click on the contact us link there and tell us a little bit about their story. We are wanting people to get involved and have a chat to us and let us know what struggles they may be going through at the moment. David: that’s right, because we all go through struggles. Sometimes they’re a little bit different, but everyone has an issue and everyone has struggles to go through in life, that’s part of the human experience. George: and what’s the most important thing to do when we are experiencing those difficulties? David: just to know that you’re not alone and you’re unlikely to be the first person to go through issues like that and to just reach out and to talk to someone about it because you’re certainly not alone. There are other people that have been through issues. George: fantastic, now David, the closing words from you. David: Just to keep going because you never know what’s just around the corner George: thank you David thank you for talking. David: thank you George